User:Badmachine/wikipedia-en-2013-07-05

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jul 05 00:00:02 2013

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Jul 05 00:00:05 <SoapX>	but still, on a regular ISP youd be paying that within 9 months or so at most
Jul 05 00:00:25 <SoapX>	and some of them even require contracts
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Jul 05 00:01:34 <SoapX>	and chanserv goes down again
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Jul 05 00:02:21 <Extreme>	wee
Jul 05 00:02:41 <Extreme>	well it wasn't functional anyway
Jul 05 00:03:15 <SoapX>	rightn ow Im getting 25Mbps or so
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Jul 05 00:23:00 <SoapX>	hey its CHANSERV
Jul 05 00:23:07 <SoapX>	our old buddy
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Jul 05 01:02:19 <TeeTylerToe>	If something's nominated for speedy delete, but it's borderline, isn't it often kicked to regular delete?
Jul 05 01:02:32 <TeeTylerToe>	new delete classic
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Jul 05 01:05:28 <ChrisGualtieri>	Could someone explain why "List of anime" is protected/salted?
Jul 05 01:06:19 <TeeTylerToe>	<sarcasm>because they stopped making good anime when I got old
Jul 05 01:06:37 <TeeTylerToe>	anime films?
Jul 05 01:06:56 <ChrisGualtieri>	No.. as in series, not films
Jul 05 01:08:19 <TeeTylerToe>	could you link?
Jul 05 01:08:33 <ChrisGualtieri>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anime
Jul 05 01:08:34 <TeeTylerToe>	why is there both a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anime_series_by_episode_count and a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anime_series_by_series_total_episode_count
Jul 05 01:09:06 <TeeTylerToe>	that page was deleted
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Jul 05 01:09:23 <ChrisGualtieri>	because WP:ANIME is stuck in organziational and administrative hell >.> that's why
Jul 05 01:09:55 <TeeTylerToe>	8 times?
Jul 05 01:10:05 <ChrisGualtieri>	Rather than act like an encyclopedia it has purposely become a massive walled garden of stupidity and ineptitude
Jul 05 01:10:12 <ChrisGualtieri>	8 times - but check the dates
Jul 05 01:10:40 <ChrisGualtieri>	I'm no admin, but 5 of them look to be the same thing and one was on request of author
Jul 05 01:10:44 <TeeTylerToe>	once within 7 minutes of each other
Jul 05 01:10:51 <TeeTylerToe>	3 times in 2 days
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Jul 05 01:11:31 <TeeTylerToe>	it won't let you recreate it?
Jul 05 01:11:32 <ChrisGualtieri>	I still need a crat to merge history of my last restoration to undo the damage this wikiproject does >.>
Jul 05 01:11:42 <ChrisGualtieri>	It must be salted or something
Jul 05 01:11:45 <ChrisGualtieri>	I can't edit it
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Jul 05 01:14:15 <ChrisGualtieri>	Oh screw it... any admins on? I want to get this thing unsalted and operating properly
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Jul 05 01:16:49 <Dcoetzee>	ChrisGualtieri: ?
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Jul 05 01:21:35 <TeeTylerToe>	he wants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anime unprotected
Jul 05 01:22:13 <Dcoetzee>	I can't believe someone would abuse A7 on an article like that
Jul 05 01:22:30 <Dcoetzee>	It's like they're trying to list CSD that might vaguely fit
Jul 05 01:22:47 <Dcoetzee>	I guess it was 2007
Jul 05 01:23:15 <Dcoetzee>	However it was deleted at AfD in 2006
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Jul 05 01:23:31 <Dcoetzee>	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_anime
Jul 05 01:23:34 <ChrisGualtieri>	I web archived the history and no wonder >.>
Jul 05 01:23:39 <ChrisGualtieri>	It was a nightmare http://web.archive.org/web/20060705050957/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anime
Jul 05 01:24:11 <Dcoetzee>	ChrisGualtieri: I will unprotect it if you guarantee me the result will not be redundant to the category hierarchy
Jul 05 01:24:17 <ChrisGualtieri>	Absolutely irrelevant... a complete sortable list for alphabetical (Japanese/English) with chronology at bare minimum
Jul 05 01:24:30 <ChrisGualtieri>	I will not allow it to ever look like that!
Jul 05 01:25:10 <ChrisGualtieri>	I will create it after I wake up tomorrow, okay?
Jul 05 01:25:26 <TeeTylerToe>	you'll probably need some sort of 5 member team of high school girls who moonlight as superheroines to help you
Jul 05 01:25:31 <Dcoetzee>	ChrisGualtieri: Okay I'll make you a deal, make a good initial user draft with a subset of titles, then leave a request on my user talk
Jul 05 01:25:47 <Dcoetzee>	Talk about why it addresses the concerns in the AfD specifically
Jul 05 01:26:03 <Dcoetzee>	And then I will unprotect it so you can move there, okay?
Jul 05 01:26:05 <ChrisGualtieri>	Dcoetzee - you aren't a crat, right?
Jul 05 01:26:08 <ChrisGualtieri>	And sure thing!
Jul 05 01:26:12 <Dcoetzee>	Nope not crat
Jul 05 01:26:25 <ChrisGualtieri>	I still need to find a crat or steward to hist merge my sandbox to Dragon Ball Z  :/
Jul 05 01:26:32 <Bsadowski1>	What the hell is this: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/jul-4-4-stop-genocide-whites-invite-public-white-house-screenings-%E2%80%9Chow-whites-took-over-america%E2%80%9D/2gtD96cH
Jul 05 01:26:55 <ChrisGualtieri>	It had over 5000 edits before it was deleted so no admin could hist merge my work to the new version
Jul 05 01:27:20 <Catteh>	that's been going around the internet for a while
Jul 05 01:27:26 <Dcoetzee>	Bsadowski1: That's what happens when crazy racists petition the White House :-)
Jul 05 01:27:43 <Dcoetzee>	ChrisGualtieri: I see, that's an unfortunate situation :-(
Jul 05 01:27:47 <TeeTylerToe>	noncriteria for CSD: Reasons based on what wikipedia is not e.g. indiscriminate list of random junk
Jul 05 01:28:01 <Dcoetzee>	TeeTylerToe: Yeah, another admin who can't read CSD
Jul 05 01:28:15 <Dcoetzee>	I'll trout them for that, but after the article is restored :-P
Jul 05 01:28:34 <TeeTylerToe>	If something's nominated for speedy delete, but it's borderline, isn't it often kicked to regular delete?
Jul 05 01:29:01 <Dcoetzee>	Yes, but only if the reviewing admin agrees that it's borderline
Jul 05 01:29:04 <TeeTylerToe>	or if CSD simply is inappropriate
Jul 05 01:29:26 <TeeTylerToe>	also why is there both a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anime_series_by_episode_count and a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anime_series_by_series_total_episode_count
Jul 05 01:30:28 <Dcoetzee>	The latter is a list by list of anime series by franchise series total episode count
Jul 05 01:30:42 <Dcoetzee>	e.g. counting all Sailor Moon episodes from all Sailor Moon series ever
Jul 05 01:31:00 <Dcoetzee>	The former only counts individual series and not franchises
Jul 05 01:31:04 <Dcoetzee>	The titles are not very clear
Jul 05 01:31:09 <ChrisGualtieri>	Yeah >.>
Jul 05 01:31:19 <Dcoetzee>	They perhaps should be in a single article
Jul 05 01:31:21 <ChrisGualtieri>	WP:ANIME has a history of major issues
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Jul 05 01:31:58 <ChrisGualtieri>	I had extreme pushback after getting their little "MOS-AM" guideline which says "don't make articles on different media"
Jul 05 01:32:24 <ChrisGualtieri>	getting rid*
Jul 05 01:32:48 <ChrisGualtieri>	It was a clear localconsensus issue - which originally destroyed the Dragon Ball Z article into a mere three paragraphs
Jul 05 01:32:53 <Dcoetzee>	I've looked up a lot of anime and noticed that they don't make articles on different media versions of the same franchise
Jul 05 01:32:55 <ChrisGualtieri>	GT was no different >.>
Jul 05 01:33:09 <ChrisGualtieri>	Dcoetzee - Sometimes that is a good thing.
Jul 05 01:33:14 <Dcoetzee>	Often that seems helpful, like with Kanon
Jul 05 01:33:15 <ChrisGualtieri>	Other times it is inherently stupid
Jul 05 01:33:51 <Dcoetzee>	But yeah, if the article needs to be broken up due to length, doing it by media is a natural way to do it
Jul 05 01:33:55 <ChrisGualtieri>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detective_Conan Franchise page, right?
Jul 05 01:34:27 <ChrisGualtieri>	Wrong... everything else is a content split - when the production and work of BOTH the anime and manga alone can have full articles.
Jul 05 01:34:56 <Dcoetzee>	I think summary style is the right way to do this
Jul 05 01:35:03 <Dcoetzee>	Franchise article briefly describes all the media
Jul 05 01:35:11 <Dcoetzee>	With full articles on particular media
Jul 05 01:35:28 <Dcoetzee>	Provided there's enough to write about them
Jul 05 01:35:38 <Dcoetzee>	I mean, they're already breaking out all these lists.
Jul 05 01:35:41 <ChrisGualtieri>	Thank you for agreeing on that aspect. WP:ANIME even goes so far as to "remove cast and production listings"
Jul 05 01:35:41 <Dcoetzee>	It's basically the same thing.
Jul 05 01:36:04 <ChrisGualtieri>	As a result the notable seiyu articles are dead and orphaned all over
Jul 05 01:36:18 <Dcoetzee>	That's unfortunate
Jul 05 01:36:30 <TeeTylerToe>	to vote on an rfa, do I just edit the support section, or the neutral, or oppose, and do !vote #reason?
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Jul 05 01:36:42 <ChrisGualtieri>	Notable directors are totally forgotten and obscure
Jul 05 01:36:51 <Dcoetzee>	TeeTylerToe: Yep, just edit the proper section and copy the person above you and adjust the reason
Jul 05 01:37:01 <ChrisGualtieri>	Hell... they cannot even get Tezuka's article half right!
Jul 05 01:37:02 <TeeTylerToe>	but add !vote?
Jul 05 01:37:16 <Dcoetzee>	TeeTylerToe: No, that's... just a thing we call it
Jul 05 01:37:21 <Dcoetzee>	TeeTylerToe: Trust me, it will be clear once you edit
Jul 05 01:37:30 <Dcoetzee>	Just copy the person above you
Jul 05 01:38:16 <ChrisGualtieri>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_Tezuka makes me rage - less than 1k on the bio
Jul 05 01:38:45 <Dcoetzee>	ChrisGualtieri: I understand where this came from, historically, since articles on individual anime can end up being massive magnets for e.g. redundant plot summaries, and other problems. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't still exist in some cases.
Jul 05 01:39:21 <Dcoetzee>	The absence of such articles leaves us with no place to put a lot of important things.
Jul 05 01:40:04 <Dcoetzee>	Especially when you think of anime like Bleach, where the anime has extended plot arcs with no corresponding plot in other media
Jul 05 01:40:06 <ChrisGualtieri>	Honestly; I think half the problem is the current editors who advance the position even knowing the painful results of such actions.
Jul 05 01:40:53 <Dcoetzee>	ChrisGualtieri: See this trope: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OvertookTheManga
Jul 05 01:40:55 <ChrisGualtieri>	Lucia keeps complaining why GA and FA do not come up for the project; yet is a reason why
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Jul 05 01:41:13 <Dcoetzee>	This is a rather extensive list of anime that overtook the manga and had to indulge in anime-specific plotlines for some considerable time
Jul 05 01:41:35 <Dcoetzee>	Which, it should be apparent, ought to be documented in the article on the anime
Jul 05 01:41:47 <ChrisGualtieri>	Definately for bleach
Jul 05 01:42:00 <Dcoetzee>	"Bleach created the Bount, Shusuke Amagai, Zanpakuto Tales, Beast Swords, and Division 13 Incursion arcs due to Tite Kubo's legendarily slow pacing."
Jul 05 01:42:12 <Dcoetzee>	Yep :-P
Jul 05 01:42:14 <ChrisGualtieri>	There is no Bleach (anime) article at all
Jul 05 01:42:28 <Dcoetzee>	Despite having no less than 6 custom plot arcs to summarize
Jul 05 01:42:39 <Dcoetzee>	As well as the cast/production, licensing history, etc.
Jul 05 01:42:45 <ChrisGualtieri>	I gotta run.
Jul 05 01:42:48 <Dcoetzee>	K
Jul 05 01:42:49 *	Dcoetzee waves
Jul 05 01:42:52 <ChrisGualtieri>	I'll draft it up and see ya tomorrow.
Jul 05 01:42:54 <ChrisGualtieri>	nite
Jul 05 01:42:56 <Dcoetzee>	Night
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Jul 05 02:31:36 <ad|mob>	THAT BANNER SUCKS
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Jul 05 02:33:43 <Dcoetzee>	ad|mob: What banner
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Jul 05 02:34:52 <ad|mob>	Dcoetzee: the "gib me money"
Jul 05 02:34:55 <ad|mob>	WTF
Jul 05 02:35:00 <Dcoetzee>	Oh is it fundraising time?
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Jul 05 02:35:19 <Dcoetzee>	I don't see a banner
Jul 05 02:35:42 <IDoH>	Dcoetzee, ad|mob: Me neither. User preferences are your friend.
Jul 05 02:36:03 <Dcoetzee>	I donate every month anyway so I guess I just disabled it :-P
Jul 05 02:36:08 <ad|mob>	american tv is weird
Jul 05 02:36:22 <ad|mob>	there's a bald guy telling me to buy a penis pump
Jul 05 02:36:23 <wctaiwan>	I think it only shows some of the times
Jul 05 02:36:27 <wctaiwan>	and only if you're logged out
Jul 05 02:36:29 <wctaiwan>	or something
Jul 05 02:36:34 *	ad|mob is logged out
Jul 05 02:36:39 <Dcoetzee>	Ah that explains it
Jul 05 02:36:41 <Dcoetzee>	I'm logged in too
Jul 05 02:36:56 <ad|mob>	wtf
Jul 05 02:37:01 <ad|mob>	american tv has scams on it
Jul 05 02:37:02 <Dcoetzee>	IMO they should show to logged in users too. We're more likely to donate than logged out users. :-P
Jul 05 02:37:10 <ad|mob>	mycleanpc.com
Jul 05 02:37:20 <Dcoetzee>	Yeah that's a scam but it's a legal one
Jul 05 02:37:28 <wctaiwan>	it did occur to me, Dcoetzee. But WMF is apparently pretty good at this fundraising stuff.
Jul 05 02:37:38 <wctaiwan>	I think they might even have an operating surplus o_O
Jul 05 02:37:41 <Dcoetzee>	wctaiwan: Yeah they know what they're doing
Jul 05 02:37:47 <Dcoetzee>	And yeah they do have a surplus
Jul 05 02:37:54 <ad|mob>	of a few billion
Jul 05 02:37:55 <ad|mob>	no biggie
Jul 05 02:37:56 <Dcoetzee>	But they're finding ways to spend it :-)
Jul 05 02:38:02 <SuicidalZerg>	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp0Bt2cbcc8
Jul 05 02:38:08 <Dcoetzee>	ad|mob: Uhhh not that much of a surplus
Jul 05 02:38:12 <ad|mob>	moving cocaine across the border, me thinks
Jul 05 02:38:16 <wctaiwan>	snacks during a sustained editing session, perhaps?
Jul 05 02:38:26 <wctaiwan>	hired entertainer?
Jul 05 02:38:27 <ad|mob>	per WP:IAR
Jul 05 02:38:28 <Dcoetzee>	Well I did attend several WMF events which included free pizza
Jul 05 02:38:32 <Dcoetzee>	So, yes?
Jul 05 02:38:41 <ad|mob>	wctaiwan: a clown
Jul 05 02:38:44 <wctaiwan>	heh. The scope needs to be more global.
Jul 05 02:38:59 <Dcoetzee>	They also give money to chapters
Jul 05 02:39:04 <Dcoetzee>	Which have local events with free pizza
Jul 05 02:39:25 <wctaiwan>	something like http://gratefuldread.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/4512759-5eb958417d7d1929101c642a68c47f0649d3bc96-scaled.jpg?w=500 would be nice
Jul 05 02:39:59 <ad|mob>	why don't we make a transparent fundraiser then
Jul 05 02:40:03 <ad|mob>	our editors are hungry
Jul 05 02:40:13 <Dcoetzee>	I feel like someone should start a Wikipedia-branded chain of coffee shops
Jul 05 02:40:30 <ad|mob>	buy them A) 1 slice B) 5 slice C) 10 slice or D) 2 PIZZAS
Jul 05 02:40:37 <ad|mob>	Dcoetzee: wikibucks?
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Jul 05 02:40:57 <Dcoetzee>	Yes! Where people can just chill and edit and get WMF-subsidized drinks and snacks.
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Jul 05 02:43:47 <wctaiwan>	er.
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Jul 05 02:52:55 <TeeTylerToe>	free pizza for editors
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Jul 05 04:58:53 <TeeTylerToe>	can something be speedily deleted if someone questions it's importance?
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Jul 05 05:06:57 <BlastHardcheese>	depends on which admin gets to it first
Jul 05 05:09:15 <TeeTylerToe>	I guess they'd claime it undar A7 or A9, but the threshold for that is that they not even claim importance, which seems fairly clean cut
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Jul 05 05:13:22 <BlastHardcheese>	that's what the policy says, but in practice it's usually whether the admin thinks it's sufficiently important
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Jul 05 06:06:14 <kriminologia>	hello there
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Jul 05 06:11:55 <TeeTylerToe>	hi
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Jul 05 08:23:47 <Qcoder00>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ListFiles/RKC_Vakwai - Loads of Non-free logos...
Jul 05 08:23:53 <Qcoder00>	Clue for admin requested
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Jul 05 09:19:14 <65MAAJ5EP>	ooooooh
Jul 05 09:19:14 <65MAAJ5EP>	i have finally attained the forbidden prize
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Jul 05 09:19:37 <65MAAJ5EP>	oh well
Jul 05 09:19:39 <65MAAJ5EP>	it couldnt last
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Jul 05 09:22:20 <Prabash_A>	Anyone care to unprotect my userpage
Jul 05 09:22:23 <Prabash_A>	???
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Jul 05 09:23:20 -mquin-	[Global Notice] As you've probably observed, we're experiencing a bit of network disruption. Please bear with us while we look into it.
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Jul 05 09:27:34 <Qcoder00>	OK Can someone tell me why Continuty bot is detagging images perfectly valid for Commons?
Jul 05 09:27:43 <Qcoder00>	http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Unger_Lula.jpg&action=history
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Jul 05 09:53:58 <Soapy>	I wish to resign my admin status please - I finally no longer wish to be part of what is becoming an increasingly tainted category of users. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 09:43, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
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Jul 05 10:03:43 <Soapy>	Kiefer is back
Jul 05 10:03:45 <Soapy>	AGAIN
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Jul 05 10:20:49 <theopolisme>	Chris_G: :p
Jul 05 10:20:52 <theopolisme>	Such is life
Jul 05 10:21:47 <theopolisme>	I do think that someone will end up starting an RfC sooner or later...although i highly doubt it'll be me :)
Jul 05 10:21:58 <theopolisme>	I just write the bots, I don't conceive them
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Jul 05 10:26:31 <Soapy>	lol
Jul 05 10:26:40 <Soapy>	i go to a children's TV website and get banner ads for beer
Jul 05 10:27:31 <addihockey10>	Soapy sue
Jul 05 10:28:01 <addihockey10>	Some conservative judge will believe that such advertisements corrupt our children
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Jul 05 10:44:58 <TeeTylerToe>	I started editing my sandbox in ve, then I went away, I came back after an hour or so and tried to commit and it says invalid token, and there doesn't seem to be anything I can do
Jul 05 10:45:18 <ChrisGualtieri>	copy your changes and reload?
Jul 05 10:45:37 <TeeTylerToe>	without all the formatting and stuff
Jul 05 10:45:58 <ChrisGualtieri>	eep
Jul 05 10:46:04 <MartijnH>	:(
Jul 05 10:46:15 <James_F>	TeeTylerToe: Yeah, sorry about that; we're going to get that bug fixed this week.
Jul 05 10:46:27 <James_F>	s/this week/in the coming few days/
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Jul 05 10:49:37 <Qcoder00>	Hi
Jul 05 10:50:01 <Qcoder00>	Can an admin shut down ContinuityBot because it's de-tagging stuff that's perfectly valid for Commons?
Jul 05 10:50:07 <Qcoder00>	Thanks
Jul 05 10:50:41 <Qcoder00>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Files_for_deletion/2013_July_5#File:Cnut_and_Emma_Minster_Register.jpg
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Jul 05 10:51:11 <Qcoder00>	And my http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Watchlist&hideWikibase=1&hideOwn=1
Jul 05 10:54:15 <Qcoder00>	For example - http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Horse_Three_Kingdoms_8.jpg&action=history - is a slow pace bot edit-warring with me
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Jul 05 10:54:52 <Qcoder00>	Any admins around?
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Jul 05 10:55:18 <addihockey10>	!admin
Jul 05 10:55:24 <QueenOfFrance>	noadmin4u
Jul 05 10:55:29 <addihockey10>	They'll wake up
Jul 05 10:56:35 <Qcoder00>	addihockey10:  It wasn't OMG Martins on Wheels delted the mainpage
Jul 05 10:56:37 <Qcoder00>	;)
Jul 05 10:56:42 <Qcoder00>	Urgent
Jul 05 10:57:07 <addihockey10>	I didn't say it was <3
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Jul 05 11:23:40 <AVRS>	Hi.
Jul 05 11:24:17 <AVRS>	load.php, line 342, calls http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Pathoschild/Scripts/Regex_menu_framework.js by HTTP even though I am using HTTPS.
Jul 05 11:24:29 <AVRS>	So Firefox blocks it.
Jul 05 11:25:32 <AVRS>	Even HTTPS Everywhere doesn't help.
Jul 05 11:25:46 <MartijnH>	hi
Jul 05 11:26:04 <MartijnH>	it's a userscript, little you can do about it, but ask Pathoschild to fix it
Jul 05 11:26:17 <MartijnH>	oh, wait
Jul 05 11:26:22 <AVRS>	MartijnH: according to Firefox, it is called from load.php, so the problem is in MediaWiki?
Jul 05 11:26:26 <AVRS>	in a Gadget maybe
Jul 05 11:27:31 <MartijnH>	that's resourceloader I think
Jul 05 11:28:00 <AVRS>	crossposted on #wikimedia-tech
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Jul 05 11:30:25 <MartijnH>	they should know
Jul 05 11:30:50 <AVRS>	it depends on my monobook.js
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Jul 05 11:42:42 <Dcoetzee>	If any techy people are around
Jul 05 11:42:50 <Dcoetzee>	I'd like to get a feeling about whether this is a good price: http://www.playtech.co.nz/afa.asp?idWebPage=39235&CATID=511&ID=20790&SID=997072244&ref=pricespy
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Jul 05 11:43:06 <Dcoetzee>	That's $1579 NZD, which is $1236.51
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Jul 05 11:43:09 <Dcoetzee>	(USD)
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Jul 05 11:57:20 <juliancolton>	well that rounds up to $1237 USD which is an awful price... $1236.49 would be far more appropriate
Jul 05 11:59:03 <AVRS>	There is "Windows 8" in it
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Jul 05 12:00:15 <AVRS>	Can it be replaced?
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Jul 05 13:18:38 <tos>	Can anyone provide a TL;DR of the ANI drama?
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Jul 05 13:21:40 <JohnLewis>	tos: Since when has ANI had drama :O
Jul 05 13:22:01 <tos>	JohnLewis, Your logic is undeniable
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Jul 05 13:30:36 <MartijnH>	tos; I haven't looked at it myself, because I cringe when I do, but I assume it can be summorised as usual "everybody hurts, and sometimes everybody cries"
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Jul 05 13:32:14 <tos>	MartijnH, I knew it was something like that. But does anyone know what was the starting point?
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Jul 05 13:37:44 <ChrisGualtieri>	Is there any such rule that says "don't edit if it causes another editor's watchlist to change" ?
Jul 05 13:38:10 <SigmaWP>	That's against the rules?
Jul 05 13:38:26 <WilliamH_UK>	Surely not??
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Jul 05 13:38:49 <ChrisGualtieri>	Apparently, causing watchlists to update because I am auditing pages is an issue :/
Jul 05 13:39:03 <WilliamH_UK>	auditing? says who?
Jul 05 13:39:32 <tos>	How do you audit pages?
Jul 05 13:39:35 <ChrisGualtieri>	Well... that is the task of checking a page for MOS compliance :/
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Jul 05 13:40:27 <ChrisGualtieri>	Its been 3 years, I'm making MOS changes for things like overlinking and general fixes (hundreds are programmed into it) and dealing with DMY and MDY templates, updating them for compliance as I go
Jul 05 13:40:39 <WilliamH_UK>	"I added this page to my watchlist so that I could keep track of edits made to it. Imagine my surprise when changes made to the page became listed on my watchlist."
Jul 05 13:40:40 <MartijnH>	and that breaks what exactly?
Jul 05 13:41:07 <ChrisGualtieri>	Apparently I've been hitting a bunch of pages on Koavf and Silver's watchlist
Jul 05 13:41:17 <MartijnH>	oh noes!
Jul 05 13:41:25 <tos>	WilliamH_UK, Oh the horror!
Jul 05 13:41:37 <ChrisGualtieri>	Materialscientist had that issue once before; but that's not unusual when you have editors place the tags in an ordered fashion and I go through the backlog
Jul 05 13:42:01 <WilliamH_UK>	ChrisGualtieri if they don't like it, then I'd say that's just too bad
Jul 05 13:42:13 <ChrisGualtieri>	I don't want to piss them off either
Jul 05 13:42:24 <ChrisGualtieri>	I did something insane like 5000 yesterday though
Jul 05 13:42:37 <MartijnH>	yeah, you probably shouldn't be editing pages on their watchlist
Jul 05 13:42:47 <tos>	How in the world do you do those many edits?
Jul 05 13:43:18 <ChrisGualtieri>	Its a simple backlog :/ And when you have 16 hours a lot is possible. :)
Jul 05 13:43:39 <WilliamH_UK>	ChrisGualtieri I think you should kind of outline how ridiculous it is
Jul 05 13:44:17 <ChrisGualtieri>	I tried to - saying Yobot's fixes alone are approved and I carry ALL those CHECKWIKI fixes and do more... a hundred times more by manual checks
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Jul 05 13:45:06 <WilliamH_UK>	I would just ignore it and keep going
Jul 05 13:45:39 <ChrisGualtieri>	Given the issue at AWB - I guess.
Jul 05 13:45:51 <ChrisGualtieri>	If I start up my DMY and MDY tagging per TIES I'll still get this issue :/
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Jul 05 13:49:01 <ChrisGualtieri>	This is an example - not updated since 2011 - by hand or bot - https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1914_in_Denmark&diff=563001889&oldid=444425995
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Jul 05 13:50:00 <ChrisGualtieri>	MDY to DMY - Why American formatting anyways? YEARLINK compliance
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Jul 05 13:52:00 <ChrisGualtieri>	A prime example: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Disasters_of_the_Century&diff=prev&oldid=563002236
Jul 05 13:52:45 <ChrisGualtieri>	My most "worthless" edit updates the template because all the other changes are indeed already in complete compliance - something which purposely altering would be disruptive itself
Jul 05 13:53:15 <WilliamH_UK>	if everything is ok then what prevents the template from being removed?
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Jul 05 13:53:48 <ChrisGualtieri>	The template is not a correction required; it is a tag that ensures compliance for future editors and serves as a guidepost for the last check made against it
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Jul 05 13:54:49 <ChrisGualtieri>	It serves a purpose that Engvar templates do - they inform a style which is backed by consensus - in this case DATERET
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Jul 05 13:55:26 <ChrisGualtieri>	It also was intended to have a bot eventually ensure compliance; according to the documentation
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Jul 05 13:56:01 <ChrisGualtieri>	A bot is simply impossible - it has to be done by hand; the reason stems from the military articles and quotes and references that have contradictory but acceptable usage
Jul 05 13:56:37 <ChrisGualtieri>	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_January_16th is a prime example, but also is in existance on Ayn Rand which is DMY not MDY
Jul 05 13:57:31 <ChrisGualtieri>	A bot would simply massacre the thousands of articles or bloat out to become ineffective on the sheer number of cases that this would be acceptable
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Jul 05 13:59:20 <ChrisGualtieri>	So after three years - I am manually doing this, all the general fixes, html, unicode, MOS OVERLINK, YEARLINK, DATELINK, double pipe, bracket error, format error, URL coding errors, unify date standards, expand shortening (Dec. - December) and numerous other fixes.
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Jul 05 14:07:10 <MartijnH>	reasonable wikipedians,  Y U leave wikipedia
Jul 05 14:10:07 <ChrisGualtieri>	because Wikipedia has become petty and full of people seeking to promote conflicts for the validation of their existance?
Jul 05 14:11:10 <MartijnH>	ok, this is it. From now on, I'm a full on rouge admin. Im done with walking on eggshells.
Jul 05 14:11:27 <FastLizard4>	MartijnH: Permaban Jimbo!  :D
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Jul 05 14:23:17 <Dusti>	FastLizard4: You're alive :)
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Jul 05 14:31:33 <TeeTylerToe>	So the admins are having a civility debate, talking about blocks for editors that use insults...  And half the admins in the debate would get hefty blocks for the things they've said in the civility debate if they were the unwashed masses of editors
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Jul 05 14:46:44 <duh>	Qcoder00: Use {{nobots}}
Jul 05 14:46:55 <Qcoder00>	OK
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Jul 05 15:13:10 <Prabash_A>	Hello
Jul 05 15:13:54 <Prabash_A>	Two admins desysopped in a day :(
Jul 05 15:14:19 <ChrisGualtieri>	What?
Jul 05 15:14:32 <ChrisGualtieri>	Where is this?
Jul 05 15:14:45 <Prabash_A>	Didnt you hear?
Jul 05 15:14:59 <ChrisGualtieri>	nope
Jul 05 15:15:01 <Prabash_A>	Wikipedia
Jul 05 15:15:31 <Prabash_A>	They left because of what happened to Eric corbette
Jul 05 15:15:53 <Prabash_A>	Blocked indefinitely for calling other editors assholes
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Jul 05 15:16:03 <ChrisGualtieri>	Who?
Jul 05 15:16:24 <Prabash_A>	It was a long term dispute
Jul 05 15:17:22 <Prabash_A>	Wikipedia is run by dictator admins now it seems
Jul 05 15:17:40 <foks>	is that so
Jul 05 15:17:48 <Prabash_A>	And nobody is doing jackshit about it
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Jul 05 15:18:05 <legoktm>	what are you talking about?
Jul 05 15:18:17 <Prabash_A>	The Eric Corbette issue
Jul 05 15:18:30 <Prabash_A>	I closed the discussion on his talk page By the way
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Jul 05 15:19:14 <Prabash_A>	He got indeffed, for attacking an editor but he was baited
Jul 05 15:19:33 <Prabash_A>	Got blocked and also embarrassed on AN
Jul 05 15:19:50 <GorillaWarfare>	Prabash_A: To be fair, the block was a month
Jul 05 15:19:55 <GorillaWarfare>	He rquested it be increased
Jul 05 15:20:05 <Prabash_A>	Oh, but still
Jul 05 15:20:18 <Prabash_A>	At most two weeks
Jul 05 15:20:30 <GorillaWarfare>	Regarding your statements of "Wikipedia being run by dictator admins", you sound rather like a child regurgitating his parent's political views
Jul 05 15:20:31 <Prabash_A>	And the fact that it went to AN
Jul 05 15:20:51 <Prabash_A>	Oh sorry i didn't mean all the admins
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Jul 05 15:21:17 <russavia>	prabash_a welcome to the most broken of all our projects -- en.wp
Jul 05 15:21:21 <Prabash_A>	Maybe like 3% out of all of them
Jul 05 15:21:57 <GorillaWarfare>	My point...
Jul 05 15:21:59 <Prabash_A>	Russavia, that is the best thing I heard today
Jul 05 15:22:32 <YuviPanda>	oh, the focus has shifted from 'dictator developers!' to 'dictator admins'?
Jul 05 15:22:48 <GorillaWarfare>	YuviPanda: No worries, another VE bug will surface and we'll be right back to normal
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Jul 05 15:23:05 <YuviPanda>	:D
Jul 05 15:23:14 <russavia>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Newyorkbrad#WMF_employee_joking_about_burning_a_wikipedia_editor_alive -- interesting also to see how en.wp's "respected" admins conduct themselves in #wp-en-admins
Jul 05 15:23:16 <ChrisGualtieri>	I think VE is a good addition... a bit rushed, but for the long term - it will be needed
Jul 05 15:23:45 <Prabash_A>	VE has improved
Jul 05 15:24:15 <Prabash_A>	I'm not going to use it because my PC slows down a lot actually using it
Jul 05 15:24:31 <ChrisGualtieri>	Agreed - but I still dug up the list for the 500 articles it is most liable to screw up - which is now a non-issue I think
Jul 05 15:25:07 <Prabash_A>	Yeah I'm pretty sure the dev's have it under control
Jul 05 15:25:37 <Prabash_A>	GorillaWarfare, what do you think?
Jul 05 15:26:06 *	Prabash_A has quit (Quit: Page closed)
Jul 05 15:26:10 <GorillaWarfare>	..
Jul 05 15:26:47 <YuviPanda>	:)
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Jul 05 15:27:28 <Prabash_A>	Ah, sorry i disconnected :P
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Jul 05 15:27:46 <GorillaWarfare>	Prabash_A: What do I think about the VE?
Jul 05 15:27:50 <jose3>	hello
Jul 05 15:27:51 <ChrisGualtieri>	WIkipedia is not a democracy... improvements must be constant - the learning cliff was too steep
Jul 05 15:27:57 <TeeTylerToe>	admins really should be more civil in civility arguments
Jul 05 15:28:16 <Prabash_A>	Yeah GW
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Jul 05 15:28:23 <GorillaWarfare>	Prabash_A: I think it's a step in the right direction
Jul 05 15:28:27 <TeeTylerToe>	Our beloved leader has declared that the next 3 year plan will take 2 years to implement
Jul 05 15:28:35 <Prabash_A>	I agree a few tend to abuse that
Jul 05 15:28:47 <GorillaWarfare>	Prabash_A: ?
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Jul 05 15:29:22 <Prabash_A>	GW, completely agree it best for the newer editors in my opinion
Jul 05 15:29:30 <ChrisGualtieri>	Civility is a requirement for all; its our 4th pillar
Jul 05 15:30:08 <ChrisGualtieri>	The policies surrounding it need to be addressed by the community in no uncertain terms - something which civility is subjective
Jul 05 15:30:23 <Prabash_A>	Yep
Jul 05 15:30:25 <ChrisGualtieri>	A bad edit is different from a bad editor
Jul 05 15:30:30 <Prabash_A>	I'm going to start a cabal
Jul 05 15:30:40 <Prabash_A>	Anti admin cabal
Jul 05 15:31:00 <ChrisGualtieri>	I had an issue with an editor who used very strong words against me, I said I thought it was a little hostile; but didn't understand the problem
Jul 05 15:31:16 <ChrisGualtieri>	It was explained to me, I apologized, gave my reason and we both agreed the matter should be looked into
Jul 05 15:31:18 <Prabash_A>	I think I remember that
Jul 05 15:31:21 <Addihockey>	HOTDOG PLAYLIST http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZWarKZ2owI&list=PLbpi6ZahtOH4XLLCN2jn6PYY1JTJf6prh&index=1
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Jul 05 15:31:52 <ChrisGualtieri>	I swapped a date to "14 Aug" from "Aug 14" as a citation on a DMY; but the source used MDY.
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Jul 05 15:32:58 <ChrisGualtieri>	Ideally; all disputes should be so simple :/
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Jul 05 15:41:09 <Prabash_A>	GorillaWarfare, would you mind joining the anti-regime Wikipedia cabal?
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Jul 05 15:42:22 <tos>	What eez this cabaaaal?
Jul 05 15:43:46 <Prabash_A>	Anti rouge admin cabal
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Jul 05 15:48:28 <GorillaWarfare>	Prabash_A: Yes
Jul 05 15:48:39 <FastLizard4>	There is no cabal!
Jul 05 15:48:41 <FastLizard4>	There is no cabal!
Jul 05 15:48:43 <FastLizard4>	lalalalalalalalalalal
Jul 05 15:48:45 <Prabash_A>	Lol
Jul 05 15:49:01 <Bradford>	lol
Jul 05 15:49:52 <tos>	troll?
Jul 05 15:50:07 <russavia>	tos -- you called?
Jul 05 15:50:26 <Prabash_A>	Lol
Jul 05 15:50:30 <FastLizard4>	sO
Jul 05 15:50:32 <FastLizard4>	*So
Jul 05 15:50:42 <FastLizard4>	When is the National Security Agency being renamed the Ministry of Love?
Jul 05 15:51:04 <Sky2042>	FastLizard4: You have a very odd definition of "love". :)
Jul 05 15:51:13 <Sky2042>	FastLizard4: Very creepy love!
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Jul 05 15:51:21 <FastLizard4>	Sky2042: I take it you've never read the book or seen the movie?
Jul 05 15:51:28 <Sky2042>	FastLizard4: Nope.
Jul 05 15:51:40 <FastLizard4>	Shame, it's a great book.
Jul 05 15:51:47 <FastLizard4>	If a little soul shattering and more than a little depressing.
Jul 05 15:51:51 <Sky2042>	lol
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Jul 05 15:52:27 <FastLizard4>	In 1984, the Ministry of Love is the headquarters of the Thought Police, and also the place that thoughtcriminals are taken to be tortured/executed/etc.
Jul 05 15:53:06 <FastLizard4>	In the same vein, the Ministry of Truth is the propaganda headquarters/history rewriting center/etc. of The Party, as the Ministry of Peace is responsible for waging war and the Ministry of Plenty responsible for rationing
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Jul 05 15:54:32 <FastLizard4>	Sky2042: But yeah, go read the book
Jul 05 15:54:47 <FastLizard4>	Or even watch the movie
Jul 05 15:55:03 <Sky2042>	Ah, I didn't read that particular dystopian novel.
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Jul 05 15:55:19 <FastLizard4>	But be advised that the movie is so depressing and soul shattering that everyone I know (myself included) was not able to watch the movie in one sitting
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Jul 05 16:30:56 <nikhs>	is there a cite news template field to say what section of a newspaper an article comes from? |section= becomes the link, for citing the section of an article, not an issue
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Jul 05 16:33:59 <nikhs>	ah, at= seems to work well enough. never mind.
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Jul 05 16:56:19 <jorm>	I am SERIOUSLY going to open my wikimania talk with "We're becoming Facebook, ya'll!"
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Jul 05 16:57:15 <FastLizard4>	Careful, you might get shot
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Jul 05 16:57:23 <heatherw>	fifi approved
Jul 05 16:57:46 <jorm>	i get shot at regularly.
Jul 05 16:57:50 <jorm>	i'm the fuckin' wolverine.
Jul 05 16:58:01 <jorm>	take a lickin' and keep on tickin'
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Jul 05 17:06:58 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	!admin
Jul 05 17:06:59 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	consider http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/CounterWikiLies
Jul 05 17:07:29 <legoktm>	looking
Jul 05 17:07:51 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	seems like a Single puprpose account for POV pushing.
Jul 05 17:08:06 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	out there to counter lies.
Jul 05 17:08:25 <legoktm>	hm. im not sure about that username
Jul 05 17:08:42 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	IMHO usernameblock would not be contested :/
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Jul 05 17:14:00 <legoktm>	blocked
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Jul 05 17:17:15 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	thank you for your attention
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Jul 05 17:18:28 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	legoktm you dont svg, do you
Jul 05 17:18:36 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	why do I think of you as an SVG artist?
Jul 05 17:18:39 <legoktm>	nope
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Jul 05 18:43:09 <FastLizard4>	irccloud go boom
Jul 05 18:44:55 <theopolisme>	quite
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Jul 05 18:47:57 <FastLizard4>	See, this is why I don't use IRCCloud.
Jul 05 18:48:03 <FastLizard4>	I have my trusty Linux server and irssi.
Jul 05 18:48:09 <Moe_Epsilon>	http://www.damnlol.com/i/988670c41f0149143cbe419a9ed72bfe.jpg I don't want to live on this planet anymore :(
Jul 05 18:48:27 <FastLizard4>	Moe_Epsilon: You'll have to sumarize the image, I'm at work
Jul 05 18:48:51 <Moe_Epsilon>	2013th American birthday
Jul 05 18:49:05 <FastLizard4>	lol
Jul 05 18:49:14 <FastLizard4>	My my
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Jul 05 18:50:35 <FastLizard4>	So much for a civic-minded population, eh?
Jul 05 18:51:01 *	mabdul (~mabdul@wikipedia/mabdul) has joined #wikipedia-en
Jul 05 18:51:06 <FastLizard4>	I know people who have no idea how many U.S. Senators there are
Jul 05 18:51:42 <FastLizard4>	I can excuse you for not know how many U.S. Representatives there are.  But stuff like how many terms a president can serve and how many U.S. Senators there are there's really no excuse for not knowing
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Jul 05 18:51:53 <FastLizard4>	Unless, of course, you're not American; that's pretty much the only valid excuse :P
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Jul 05 18:52:55 <theo|away>	power outage :p
Jul 05 18:53:10 <FastLizard4>	:P
Jul 05 18:53:21 <theo|away>	power outage :p
Jul 05 18:53:25 <theo|away>	it's the worst when it's off and on
Jul 05 18:53:27 <theo|away>	just to mess with you and make you reset clocks
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Jul 05 18:53:36 <theopolisme>	wtf
Jul 05 18:53:48 <theopolisme>	oh okay
Jul 05 18:53:52 <theopolisme>	just lag
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Jul 05 19:06:10 <FunPika>	Moe_Epsilon: *screams internally at that image*
Jul 05 19:06:25 <FastLizard4>	FunPika: ikr
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Jul 05 19:06:31 <Moe_Epsilon>	indeed :<
Jul 05 19:07:01 <FastLizard4>	Here's the scary part
Jul 05 19:07:15 <FastLizard4>	These are the people either currently or soon to be voting in elections to choose the leader of the country and its armed forces
Jul 05 19:09:22 <foks>	the even scarier part
Jul 05 19:09:27 <foks>	people like that already exist
Jul 05 19:09:30 <foks>	and already vote
Jul 05 19:09:37 <FastLizard4>	Yup
Jul 05 19:09:52 <FastLizard4>	I'm pretty sure the Founding Fathers would be facepalming at the current state of the country, and for more reasons than taht
Jul 05 19:09:54 <FastLizard4>	*that
Jul 05 19:09:57 <FunPika>	fortunately in America the President was voted in last year, so we have 3 years and a few months before they get a chance to make the country even worse
Jul 05 19:10:12 <FastLizard4>	*scoff*
Jul 05 19:10:21 <FastLizard4>	Assuming the Thought Police isn't created in the next three years and a few months
Jul 05 19:10:48 <Ironholds>	FastLizard4: hyperbole much? ;p
Jul 05 19:10:57 <FastLizard4>	Ironholds: Only a little
Jul 05 19:11:26 <FastLizard4>	Hey, if the NSA really is copying and saving everything done by everyone online, we're half way there
Jul 05 19:11:31 <FastLizard4>	All they need to do is break AES and RSA
Jul 05 19:12:03 <FunPika>	Obama will create the Thought Police, and then in 2016 enough Republicans will be voted in to ensure that the Thought Police are in addition enforcing Christian ideals at the expense of scientific facts and common sense
Jul 05 19:13:01 <PapaJacky>	the nsa already broke a lesser aes encryption
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Jul 05 19:14:32 <FastLizard4>	PapaJacky: Fine, AES-256
Jul 05 19:14:33 <FastLizard4>	There
Jul 05 19:14:34 <FastLizard4>	:P
Jul 05 19:15:04 <FastLizard4>	I think that's what most use currently for strong encryption
Jul 05 19:15:06 <Ironholds>	if you're just using straight AES you deserve what's coming to you.
Jul 05 19:15:26 <FastLizard4>	Ironholds: "straight" AES?
Jul 05 19:15:50 <Ironholds>	So, I use cascading AES-Twofish-Serpent, for example
Jul 05 19:15:56 <FunPika>	FastLizard4: Good luck to them factoring extremely large semiprimes, I highly doubt RSA is getting broken anytime soon
Jul 05 19:16:02 <FastLizard4>	FunPika: Quantum computers
Jul 05 19:16:12 <FastLizard4>	Shor's Algorithm completely renders RSA and others totally useless
Jul 05 19:16:21 <FastLizard4>	Others including SHA2
Jul 05 19:16:39 <FastLizard4>	Well, quantum computing renders SHA2 useless
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Jul 05 19:16:44 <FastLizard4>	Shor's Algorithm can be used to defeat RSA
Jul 05 19:17:06 <FunPika>	I know about Shor's, but Quantum Computers haven't been developed enough yet for that to be a problem, although once it finally happens RSA is screweed
Jul 05 19:17:17 <FastLizard4>	FunPika: Google is building a 512 qubit quantum computer
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Jul 05 19:18:05 <FastLizard4>	Ironholds: Eh, I've always just used straight AES, but strong AES (256 or higher)
Jul 05 19:18:18 <Ironholds>	FastLizard4: yeah, which is probably safe, and if you're going to pick any one, AES is good
Jul 05 19:18:31 <Ironholds>	first because it's strong (256 or higher, yes) but also because it's the standard
Jul 05 19:18:39 <Ironholds>	which means lots of intelligent, pedantic people have kicked the crap out of it.
Jul 05 19:18:42 <FastLizard4>	AES is the fastest for full-drive encryption I believe
Jul 05 19:18:53 <Ironholds>	this is why AES is the first in my cascade; you want the outer one to be the most off-putting ;p
Jul 05 19:19:00 <FastLizard4>	In part because Intel CPUs have the AES extension for x86
Jul 05 19:20:10 <FastLizard4>	Though for individual files I mostly use asymmetric encryption
Jul 05 19:20:20 <FastLizard4>	Usually with my 4096-bit RSA GPG key
Jul 05 19:20:34 <FastLizard4>	I don't use any RSA weaker than 4096 now :P
Jul 05 19:20:49 <FastLizard4>	And I'm exploring the possibility of going to 8192-bit modulus RSA
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Jul 05 19:33:01 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	FastLizard4 how fast are you?
Jul 05 19:33:06 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	and how much of a lizard ar eyou?
Jul 05 19:33:17 <FastLizard4>	ToAruShiroiNeko: I can travel up to warp nine
Jul 05 19:33:26 <FastLizard4>	And I can't answer the second question; that's classified
Jul 05 19:34:03 <Sky2042>	FastLizard4: Only warp 9?
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Jul 05 19:34:14 <FastLizard4>	Sky2042: That's my safe cruising speed.
Jul 05 19:34:30 <Sky2042>	Isn't that more or less the standard safe cruising speed?
Jul 05 19:34:34 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	FastLizard4 so I would find it under classified ads?
Jul 05 19:34:42 <FastLizard4>	ToAruShiroiNeko: Yes, try page five
Jul 05 19:34:53 <FastLizard4>	Sky2042: Pretty much, yeah
Jul 05 19:34:53 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	yay
Jul 05 19:35:04 <FastLizard4>	Above warp 9 the mathematics of FTL travel become very strange :P
Jul 05 19:35:15 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	I warp your 9
Jul 05 19:35:34 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	FastLizard4 can you help me with an article?
Jul 05 19:35:39 <FastLizard4>	ToAruShiroiNeko: I'm at work :P
Jul 05 19:35:50 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	you cant be doing anything more important than this article :p
Jul 05 19:35:56 <FastLizard4>	Well, I am programming :P
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Jul 05 19:36:13 <FastLizard4>	I have two keyboards in front of me; the one on my desk for IRC, the one on my lap for coding :P
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Jul 05 19:36:46 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	if you confuse the two, do you type irc into the code and would we see those in the finished product?
Jul 05 19:36:59 <FastLizard4>	Yes, no
Jul 05 19:37:04 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	would it involve lots of lolcats?
Jul 05 19:37:10 <FastLizard4>	I usually recognize my mistake by the feel of the keyboard and then correct :P
Jul 05 19:37:18 <FastLizard4>	"This keyboard isn't stiff enough for IRC"
Jul 05 19:37:19 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	Error! This task is serious business!
Jul 05 19:37:21 <FastLizard4>	(I kid you not)
Jul 05 19:37:41 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	FastLizard4 dont feel bad, even musicians use two keyboards
Jul 05 19:38:00 <FastLizard4>	I also have two monitors, two mice, and two towers in front of me
Jul 05 19:38:08 <FastLizard4>	A linux computer for development, and a Windows computer for everything else
Jul 05 19:38:37 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	I have 3
Jul 05 19:38:48 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	one of them has a few virtual pcs
Jul 05 19:38:52 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	therefore I out compute you
Jul 05 19:38:55 <FastLizard4>	My iPad is to the left of me
Jul 05 19:39:02 <FastLizard4>	Though it's only playing music
Jul 05 19:39:14 <FastLizard4>	And then I'm remoted into my personal server from the Windows machine
Jul 05 19:39:21 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	you should get a server mahcine just ot listen to music
Jul 05 19:39:28 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	if boss asks just claim it is for beta testing
Jul 05 19:39:33 <FastLizard4>	I'm also sitting next to my workplace's PBX :P
Jul 05 19:40:03 <FastLizard4>	And the datacenter is in the next room :P
Jul 05 19:40:30 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	so go to that room and steal one of them server mahcines and use it as an mp3 player
Jul 05 19:40:34 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	I am sure no one would miss it
Jul 05 19:41:10 <FastLizard4>	Actually, they probably would miss it :P
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Jul 05 19:43:37 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	thats fine, as long as they dont find out who had taken it ;)
Jul 05 19:44:01 <FastLizard4>	Well, that'd be kinda hard, my boss is on the other side of the room :P
Jul 05 19:44:54 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	just toss in tear gas
Jul 05 19:45:06 <SuicidalZerg>	O_O Tornado warning close to my area
Jul 05 19:45:11 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	people would be too busy to pay attneiton to you :p
Jul 05 19:45:15 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	SuicidalZerg that sucks
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Jul 05 19:46:05 <FastLizard4>	SuicidalZerg: Don't get lost in Oz :P
Jul 05 19:54:34 <FastLizard4>	sudo shutdown -h now
Jul 05 19:54:37 <FastLizard4>	Oops, wrong keyboard :P
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Jul 05 19:57:12 <Crap>	Hello
Jul 05 19:58:08 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	FastLizard4|away you can shut me down!
Jul 05 19:58:16 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	I am not YOUR sudo
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Jul 05 21:48:46 *	Prabash_A (40e7f110@wikipedia/PBASH607) has joined #wikipedia-en
Jul 05 21:49:20 <Prabash_A>	Hello
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Jul 05 21:50:34 *	YE is now known as YE|Dwightmare
Jul 05 21:51:11 <Bradford>	hi Prabash_A :)
Jul 05 21:51:32 <Prabash_A>	Hey Bradford
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Jul 05 21:54:13 <Prabash_A>	Bradford, you need more respect on wikipedia!
Jul 05 21:54:31 *	Swob (~Soap@wikipedia/soap) has joined #wikipedia-en
Jul 05 21:54:42 <Prabash_A>	Hello Swob
Jul 05 21:54:50 <Bradford>	ok
Jul 05 21:54:59 <Swob>	hi
Jul 05 21:55:19 <Prabash_A>	Care for a barnstar for your work?
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Jul 05 21:58:53 *	YuviPanda wonders how many people habe bradford on ignore
Jul 05 21:59:32 <Prabash_A>	Swob are you the admin soap on wikipedia?
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Jul 05 22:00:40 <Swob>	hi
Jul 05 22:00:45 <Swob>	yes thats me
Jul 05 22:00:48 <Prabash_A>	If yes I forgot to thank you for this edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:PBASH607&diff=555450180&oldid=555450142
Jul 05 22:01:15 <Prabash_A>	I was in the middle of working on my userpage when that troll stepped in
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Jul 05 22:02:03 <Prabash_A>	So a very belated thank you
Jul 05 22:02:13 <Swob>	cool
Jul 05 22:02:16 <Swob>	I dont even remember that
Jul 05 22:02:45 <Swob>	I wonder how I happened to click onto the page at the exact right time
Jul 05 22:02:54 <Swob>	but oh well
Jul 05 22:03:00 <Swob>	anytime
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Jul 05 22:03:14 <Prabash_A>	Lol you were probably RC patrolling and yo stumbled on my userpage :D
Jul 05 22:03:20 <Prabash_A>	*you
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Jul 05 22:03:51 <Swob>	which is weird because I dont really do that anymore
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Jul 05 22:04:03 <Prabash_A>	theopolisme, are you having internet problems?
Jul 05 22:04:18 <theopolisme>	yeah :p
Jul 05 22:04:22 <theopolisme>	the power keeps going out
Jul 05 22:04:28 <theopolisme>	transformer issues i think
Jul 05 22:04:41 <Prabash_A>	Swob, I used to RC partol until I started to work on articles
Jul 05 22:04:47 <Prabash_A>	ahh
Jul 05 22:05:31 <Prabash_A>	It gets boring
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Jul 05 22:11:26 <nikhs>	having Dodo as TFA feels like a real encyclopedia
Jul 05 22:11:36 *	peachey|laptop__ is now known as p858snake
Jul 05 22:12:05 <IDoH>	nikhs: Good. We try to be a real encyclopedia.
Jul 05 22:12:21 <nikhs>	more than that, ... it's impossible to get any more encyclopedic. Dodo is the perfect TFA.
Jul 05 22:12:33 *	Bradford has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
Jul 05 22:12:36 <BlastHardcheese>	beware of fake encyclopedias
Jul 05 22:12:36 <nikhs>	:)
Jul 05 22:12:51 <IDoH>	Ha
Jul 05 22:12:55 <Prabash_A>	encyclopedia dramatica
Jul 05 22:12:56 <IDoH>	Like conservapedia?
Jul 05 22:13:12 <Prabash_A>	uncyclopedia
Jul 05 22:13:40 <Swob>	there's 2 uncyclopedias now
Jul 05 22:14:11 <Prabash_A>	Lol
Jul 05 22:14:23 <nikhs>	 none of them would ever have a Dodo article let alone plaster it on the main page. Sad pretenders
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Jul 05 22:18:05 <nikhs>	well I'm a liar: http://www.conservapedia.com/Dodo not bad for its length really
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Jul 05 22:19:45 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	IDoH hey
Jul 05 22:19:57 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	I Dreamed of a Coke
Jul 05 22:20:01 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	I ended up getting a coup
Jul 05 22:20:08 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	weird dream
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Jul 05 22:20:18 <IDoH>	LOL, ToAruShiroiNeko
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Jul 05 22:22:14 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	IDoH it seems like 22 more people died
Jul 05 22:22:25 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	it seems like middle east is one step closer to peace
Jul 05 22:22:33 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	once everyone is dead there wont be any more conflict
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Jul 05 22:35:02 <IDoH>	ToAruShiroiNeko: Dark humor there. Heh.
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Jul 05 22:52:45 <ChrisGualtieri>	WP:ANIME is a sad sad project :/
Jul 05 22:52:54 *	Keegan has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
Jul 05 22:53:02 <IDoH>	What happened, ChrisGualtieri?
Jul 05 22:53:28 <ChrisGualtieri>	As a scholar; every time I look at the project's progress, scope and coverage I just facepalm.
Jul 05 22:53:43 <ChrisGualtieri>	It cannot even get its own damn history correct
Jul 05 22:54:01 <IDoH>	I see
Jul 05 22:54:05 <wctaiwan>	an anime scholar, sir?
Jul 05 22:54:06 *	Falcorian has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
Jul 05 22:54:13 <ChrisGualtieri>	"The oldest known anime in existence first screened in 1917 – a two-minute clip of a samurai trying to test a new sword on his target, only to suffer defeat."
Jul 05 22:54:15 <ChrisGualtieri>	BS :/
Jul 05 22:54:24 <ChrisGualtieri>	Try 1907
Jul 05 22:54:52 <ChrisGualtieri>	I guess for "official" screening you can argue 1917.
Jul 05 22:56:42 <ChrisGualtieri>	But I think Namakura Gatana might also be "first" :/
Jul 05 22:57:11 <ChrisGualtieri>	We have dozens of lost films that are not even covered.. something whose very existance alone is notable.
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Jul 05 22:59:20 <ChrisGualtieri>	Oh and yes the "scholar" comment absolutely and completely pisses off one editor... so I probably shouldn't use it tongue in cheek even
Jul 05 23:00:07 <IDoH>	Everything pisses someone off.
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Jul 05 23:03:39 <Swob>	samurais are cowards
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Jul 05 23:09:45 <Addihockey>	http://i.imgur.com/aY2HXam.gif
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Jul 05 23:14:19 <Swob>	mrrraaaouw
Jul 05 23:16:26 *	Jamesofur|away is now known as Jamesofur
Jul 05 23:17:19 <Addihockey>	http://i.imgur.com/AsOXOMT.jpg
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Jul 05 23:18:19 <wctaiwan>	Swob: I don't think that's a fair characterisation
Jul 05 23:18:28 <wctaiwan>	you're judging their values based on your values.
Jul 05 23:19:00 <Swob>	nah its true
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Jul 05 23:19:53 <Swob>	Japan's govt knew  that it needed to eliminate the samurais if Japan was to ever be taken seriously in the world
Jul 05 23:20:06 <Swob>	because an all-samurai would just spend all its time terrorizing unarmed Japanese citizens
Jul 05 23:20:28 <wctaiwan>	everyone knows that we need to suppress the american hegemony
Jul 05 23:20:32 <Swob>	insead of defending the citizens *from* foreigners
Jul 05 23:20:40 <wctaiwan>	otherwise the NSA and the CIA would just continue to terrorize the world
Jul 05 23:20:42 <wctaiwan>	your point? :|
Jul 05 23:22:09 <Swob>	the USA saved Taiwan
Jul 05 23:22:37 <Swob>	from the evil Chinese
Jul 05 23:22:57 <Addihockey>	good guy murica
Jul 05 23:24:24 <wctaiwan>	Swob: yes. I'm very pro-US-hegemony, as a matter of fact. But I'm just saying you can't so simply judge people from a different century
Jul 05 23:25:01 <Swob>	oh so you dont mind that the USA treats all the other countries like babies that cant do anything without America's help
Jul 05 23:25:19 <wctaiwan>	some of the sumarais were scum, sure, but it's as much a product of the culture of Japan at that time (which, in hindsight, was pretty terrible) as individual character deficiencies
Jul 05 23:25:46 <wctaiwan>	well no, I wish the US would do a better job being the supreme world power. But I think a US-led world order is better than any of the viable alternatives.
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Jul 05 23:26:19 <Swob>	i wish we could make Taiwan the 51st state
Jul 05 23:26:37 <Swob>	how come Obama hasnt pursued statehood for Puerto Rico??
Jul 05 23:26:43 <wctaiwan>	(i.e. China / Russia / a combination of the two. Some people think it should be EU. I don't think they can manage. I also don't think it's possible to have a world of equal nations)
Jul 05 23:26:56 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	Swob that would make him popular, he can't have that
Jul 05 23:27:12 <Swob>	the EU running the world would be interesting
Jul 05 23:27:24 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	Swob I dont think so
Jul 05 23:27:27 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	EU cant even run itself
Jul 05 23:27:35 <wctaiwan>	yeah, basically..
Jul 05 23:27:57 <Swob>	they would do better if they could just make everyone speak English
Jul 05 23:27:58 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	BUT EU running the world would mean businessas usual I suppose due to its incompeteence
Jul 05 23:28:08 <wctaiwan>	the EU is good evidence how a union of equals can't really work.
Jul 05 23:28:11 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	Swob they added irish to their languages
Jul 05 23:28:19 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	EU is not a union of equals
Jul 05 23:28:25 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	some nations are more equal than others
Jul 05 23:28:30 <Swob>	but actually no
Jul 05 23:28:34 <Swob>	they should make evferyone speak German
Jul 05 23:28:37 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	NATO is a union of equals
Jul 05 23:28:51 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	in terms of decision making
Jul 05 23:29:02 <Swob>	if there is a language that's truly "European", it's German
Jul 05 23:29:12 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	umm
Jul 05 23:29:16 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	and english isnt?
Jul 05 23:29:22 <Swob>	English is American
Jul 05 23:29:28 <Swob>	even the British talk like Americans now
Jul 05 23:29:41 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	Not really
Jul 05 23:29:42 <Swob>	according to the British who were born 50+ years ago
Jul 05 23:29:46 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	just watch the daily show
Jul 05 23:29:51 <Swob>	ok then
Jul 05 23:29:52 <Swob>	Greek
Jul 05 23:29:56 <Swob>	Greece created Europe
Jul 05 23:30:00 <Swob>	its time to take it back
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Jul 05 23:30:08 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	Greeks didnt create Europe
Jul 05 23:30:19 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	Greeks called everything west europe
Jul 05 23:31:10 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	Europa is a regular woman abducted by zeus
Jul 05 23:31:43 <Swob>	zeus was a bull?>
Jul 05 23:31:50 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	had taken the form of it
Jul 05 23:31:53 <Swob>	ok
Jul 05 23:31:57 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	zeus is a mean prick
Jul 05 23:32:06 <Swob>	i dont know how a bull could adbuct someone though
Jul 05 23:32:06 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	abducting girls for a living
Jul 05 23:32:18 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	think bestiality
Jul 05 23:32:21 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	ya...
Jul 05 23:32:30 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	Europa was just horny probably
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Jul 05 23:36:15 <Swob>	hmm
Jul 05 23:36:23 <Swob>	the statehood vote in Puerto Rico was very deceptive
Jul 05 23:38:13 *	Twerk is now known as Cram
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Jul 05 23:39:12 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	I think obama wants to be the most scandaleous president ever
Jul 05 23:39:17 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	he is working VERY HARD for it.
Jul 05 23:39:41 <Swob>	hes not doing a good job
Jul 05 23:39:53 <Swob>	even the Republicans are kind of disappointed at how timid he's been
Jul 05 23:40:08 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	it isnt even mid term election season yet and he has seen more scandals since the start of his second term than multiple former presidents combined
Jul 05 23:40:18 <Swob>	I mean they were saying that as soon as he got in he'd give free health care to all the illegal Mexicans
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Jul 05 23:40:46 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	Illegal immigrants should get free healthcare so they dont make the rest of the people sick
Jul 05 23:40:48 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	would save money
Jul 05 23:40:53 <Swob>	and that all whites would be forced to pay 12% of their paychecks to blacks as slavery reparations
Jul 05 23:41:03 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	mmm
Jul 05 23:41:17 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	to obama?
Jul 05 23:41:44 <Swob>	the Republicans are kind of looking paranoid now
Jul 05 23:41:54 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	what if people are in debt, do they give away 12% of their debt?
Jul 05 23:42:20 <Swob>	i mean, hey, Obama hasnt even installed pedometers in all of our cars so that the government could send us a bill for every mile we drive
Jul 05 23:43:00 <Swob>	and he hasnt stolen all our ugns
Jul 05 23:43:01 <Swob>	*guns
Jul 05 23:44:18 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	he is tyring to take away our nukes
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Jul 05 23:44:40 <ToAruShiroiNeko>	pedo-meter sounds like a horrible idea
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Jul 05 23:45:52 <Amir1>	hi, I have a question, some of people in Persian Wikipedia want to make a Wikiproject to maintenance images (remove CR violated images, moving free images to commons and these kind of stuff ) they want to know  there is any similar wikiprojects in Wikipedia languages.
Jul 05 23:46:04 <Amir1>	is there?
Jul 05 23:46:08 <YuviPanda>	Amir1: qcoder00 isn't around right now, though :(
Jul 05 23:46:11 <YuviPanda>	but perhaps someone else knows
Jul 05 23:46:52 <Amir1>	YuviPanda: asking won't cause any harm :)
Jul 05 23:46:58 <YuviPanda>	 indeed
Jul 05 23:47:03 <YuviPanda>	i do know there is one tho
Jul 05 23:47:44 <PapaJacky>	TUNE INTO http://turntable.fm/reddit FOR A LINKIN PARK AND NICKLEBACK MARATHON ALL NIGHT LONG!
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Jul 05 23:51:19 <Charmless>	Yes you did.
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